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Sideshowbob User is Offline

Apprentice
Posts:13

17-03-2008 1:14 PM
I have had lots of difficulty attaining a HR position through agencies- they never provide feedback, target focused, time consuming etc... However I have had two interviews in the last seven days and on both occasions the HR Managers had changed their requirements when I arrived and clearly didn’t understand the current labour market.>> On the first occasion they were looking for a 17K HR Manager - to look after ALL operational HR issues - Having seen my CV they wanted to interview me - after a 2 hour interview they decided I didn’t have the operational experience required- this should have been clear from my CV unless they were hoping I would have completely different skills in person! The fact is if I did have all the operational experience they were seeking I would have 5 years HR behind me and want more than 17K.>> The second occasion - I read a spec for a HR admin support role and attained an interview. Upon arrival I was informed they weren’t looking for an administrator, instead they now wanted an officer, again with operational experience. They are now looking for a 25K + HR officer. HR Managers need to understand the market place and skill sets they can attain at certain levels. The recruitment process should be the first stage in a long and successful career within that particular organisation. On these occasions I lost a days holiday, the cost of travelling to interviews, all the preparation time and the stress of sitting in an interview. - HR Managers take note- if you want good suitable candidates research the market place, ensure there first impressions are good, and don’t waste peoples time.>>

Isaac

Apprentice
Posts:12

18-03-2008 10:19 AM
I couldnt agree more with you on this one!

Gemma

Apprentice
Posts:33

19-03-2008 10:40 AM
I also agree with what u are saying. Basically a HR manager does not know what they want and what the hell they are doing in their job.

Stuart

Apprentice
Posts:14

20-03-2008 12:51 PM
I have worked in HR for over 30 years now and it causes me distress when I read things like this regarding my profession. Although I have to say that I have also found that this is a continuing problem. I have recently applied for a position with a large retail company and because I have been doing interims contract over the past 2 years, the company informed the agency that I applied through that they wouldn't interview me because they wanted someone who was reliable. I was furious as I have worked interim because I have been unable to secure a permanent role, therefore i my opinion this shows me to be hard working, flexible and willing to undertake any role to ensure that I am working. I would just like to say to all employers that I consider all people should be treated with respect and given opportunities to develop and grow both personally and professionally. I have also been put through attending interviews kept waiting for months sometimes only to be told that the organisaiton has decided to rethink what they are looking for or worse that they have appointed an internal applicant, I have also been given positions on an interim contract and told that they could be made permanent and then informed that the company will be down grading the position and that they will not be keeping me. I find alot of companies have no moral fibre and no conscious, all they see is pound signs. I would just like to add that you get what you pay for, so remember that when looking for an HR professional that they are just thta professional and as such expect to be treated as such and this should be reflected in theri T&C's and salary.

Professor

Posts:9

21-03-2008 12:43 PM
There are some rogur managers around but as a general rule I dont agree with the observation. As a recruitment consultant I have found that HR Managers recognise that there will be a cost if agreed specifications are radically changed. After that, its up to the supplier to feed through the appropriate skill set. The treatment of candidates is another issue and can result in people with scarce skills not wanting to work for a company because of how they treat applicants.

Martin

Apprentice
Posts:14

24-03-2008 9:46 AM
You could learn to write in paragraphs Stuart, that might help. Seriously though, there are these discrepancies all over the place - I went to an interview with a company who wanted me to set up and manage a customer management database and associate procedures that included different approaches and systems for all levels of customers from one-off small purchases to million pound orders and then implement a training programme for all the staff who would use it (only around 200 but with different types of need). They said it would be 'good experience'. They wanted to pay me £15,000 for it. I said 'Not at that price'. They said I had no ambition and they would look for someone who did. That was no loss to me of course, but I have no idea why they thought that was such a junior job.

Sideshowbob User is Offline

Apprentice
Posts:13

26-03-2008 12:22 PM
Having search for positions over a period of 18 months I would say the general rule was infact as stated in my first posting - ineffective managers and recruiters. This can be recognised by measuring length of time to recruit, feedback time after interviews and the amount of time the recruitment process has to go back to the advertising stage. Since posting my comments I have now attained a graduate position working as a full generalist. Other than graduate schemes however the opportunities on offer for people entering HR are depressingly poor. All this will do is drive people into other departments - I came very close to leaving HR earlier in the year despite sudying the subject for my 3 year degree. All the while HR is trying to justify its role and effectiveness within business - see pretty much every issue of Personnel Today and ppl mngt. When will the profession stop trying to justify itself among fellow proffessionals and start delivering within the business

Martin

Apprentice
Posts:14

27-03-2008 10:41 AM
By the way, one of the reasons for 'opportunities in HR being depressingly poor' is because of the fact that HR is an overwhelmingly female area of business. The attraction of HR for women who want to get into business, but prefer to be away from the sharp end and in a more 'caring' area means that the numbers of people applying for entry level positions consist of a disproporionate amount of women and a proportionate amount of men. i.e. the number of people who can do entry level jobs in HR and who want to is massive - hence either low pay or reduced availability of opportunities. One also needs to consider that many of the entry-level roles can equally be done by someone trained in HR as someone with no training (entry level jobs are overwhelmingly clerical) which means that again the supply is incredibly high (how many employment agencies recruit any-old-temp into HR admin work!).

Gemma

Apprentice
Posts:33

04-04-2008 8:27 AM
I am female, work in HR and have far more 'sharp end' influence than many (if not all) of my male operations counterparts. With out me doing my job, they wouldn't have one. Please consider your overtly sexist tone in the future.

Mystic Raven User is Offline

Apprentice
Posts:13

02-06-2008 2:55 PM
So glad that it's not only me that feels that Martin should engage brain before putting fingers to the keyboard. I consider my self an inteegral part of the Senior Strategic Management Team, but I also have Operational Hnads on duties. So like Female HR Professional, I feel my role is paramount to alot of my other colleagues not only having a job but being able to carry out their role.

Apprentice
Posts:10

27-06-2008 11:47 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with the comments above. I too am a female HR professional, specialising in ER. On an everyday basis I make decisions which can directly affect the business - be it cost, reputation etc - and I stuggle to see how this is the "caring area" and not "the sharp end". Furthermore, I disagree that the entry level positions within HR can be done equally as well by an employee with no training. These "overwhelmingly clerical" tasks often have legal restrictions and are time sensitive, and a basic understanding of this is, in my view, essential. Yes the tasks themselves may be of an administrative nature, however their impact is potentially greater than "standard" (for want of a better word) admin tasks. Aside from Martin's obvious sexism, I feel that these comments are a result of complete ignorance of the HR profession itself. It appears to me that this is not HR Managers failing to understand the recruitment market, but applicants not understanding their own skillset and its value within a function.

Sticky

Apprentice
Posts:18

25-09-2008 8:55 PM
17k for a HR Manager? That's an insult. I know of at least one local (well local to me!!) PLC that pays in excess of £40kpa.

Merlin

Apprentice
Posts:14

27-09-2008 1:56 PM
Some clients just don't have a clue! I've been looking at senior technical architect positions - the norm is about £600/650per day and I've seen some advertising at £300p.d. They were never going to find someone of the ability and experience they were looking for at that rate. Waste of time.

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