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Asterix
Newbie
Posts:19
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| 14-03-2008 12:50 PM |
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This should get the ball rolling :-)
People who have just discovered Internet Telephony (Voice over Internet Protocol or VoIP) usually evangelise about Skype, how it is free and easy and wonderful quality, and all that. Techies grumble about its use of peer to peer networking and its lack of scalability, so what is the reality ?
Skype is a proprietary protocol (think "Microsoft") and in the main (99% of cases) is run on a computer (PC / Mac / Linux versions). A few standalone Skype devices are coming on the market, pandering to the prevalence and hype of Skype. But in the main using Skype means running a computer and being next to it to make a phone call.
Free calls have been around well before Skype was invented, for example Geoff Pulver's Free World Dialup or FWD. This uses the open standards SIP protocol and can run on computers with soft phones or on small hardware black boxes which plug into your network or internet router then you plug a standard phone (including DECT phones) into the black box.
SIP based VoIP systems have the advantage of readily using standard telephones or being integrated into a PABX switchboard.
"Skype phones" are in the main simply USB sound card devices in the style of a phone with a keypad. They just add a different in/out device to a PC. The alternative is to use a headset with boom mike or speakers and a microphone.
SIP phones have an ethernet socket and are a stand-alone VoIP phone, a complete solution.
Advanced SIP adapters combine conventional phone lines with VoIP and can route calls out over VoIP or over the landline and take calls from both on a single telephone, allowing the use of a familiar instrument for VoIP and with no need to have a computer running nearby.
Asterisk is an Open Source software based VoIP switchboard system that allows you to host your own VoIp service or to integrate office phones into landline and VoIP external services.
Services like Sipgate give you free incoming geographical numbers in your area or another area code altogether, whereas SkypeIn is charged at £2/month or more. Other services may also offer US or European incoming numbers to help you serve clients in those areas. Call rates on Sipgate are similar to or less than SkypeOut.
SIP based Soft phones are very much like Skype to start with, but have the key advantage of starting you off on a road which can take you to more complex systems using standard phones, switchboards, multiple call providers for lowest cost and so on.
Skype on the other hand ties you to a PC and is a proprietary system with one call provider for external incoming or outgoing calls from/to the public phone network. Think "telecoms monopoly" and you'll get the idea.
So think about the medium to long term before getting too hung up on Skype :-)
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RobJ
Newbie
Posts:10
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| 17-03-2008 10:00 AM |
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I agree very much with everything you say, Asterix. The closed standard that Skype uses will eventually be shown to be a dead end. As part of the ChangeUp funded East of England Free and Open Software (FOSS) in the VCS project, we have set up and have been testing an Asterisk server (ironic!) for local VCS use with excellent results (see http://foss.ciac.org.uk/article42.html ).
One thing I would like to add to what you say though is to mention IAX which is another open standard developed specifically by the Asterisk programmers. Although SIP is the most widely used open standard we found IAX worked better for voice communication (it doesn't yet support video). In particular, we had much less problems with using it through firewalls. We linked our server to Free World Dialup so that calls were possible between their users and ours and there were no problems concerning SIP to IAX and back.
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RedKnight
Newbie
Posts:9
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| 18-03-2008 9:59 AM |
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Just thought I'd correct one point in this post and that I believe there are "Skype phones" available which can operate independently from a host computer.
Regards,
RedKnight |
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Morpheus
Newbie
Posts:8
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| 19-03-2008 10:22 AM |
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| We had fun playing with asterisk at South Witham. Worked well on sat connection, and a natted network. We even did something really crazy and tested it on the mesh, air to ground in a microlight. |
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Roxster
Newbie
Posts:8
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| 20-03-2008 12:22 PM |
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Does anyone else have any thoughts or experiences of using internet telephony?
It is something we have found people are keen to find out about so it would be useful to hear from people who are using it, skype or otherwise!
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RedKnight
Newbie
Posts:9
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| 21-03-2008 11:04 AM |
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But Skype works out of the box and that's what people want!
I've been using Asterisk, bundled into Trixbox (www.trixbox.org), for the past eight months and one of my clients makes about 100 local and international calls using it a day but it hasn't been easy.
What people fail to mention is VoIP can suffer from terrible echo and the quality can be poor. Nobody has ever complained to me about Skype suffering from this. Skype also appear to take an active interest in monitoring (and I assume) addressing call quality issues.
Skype is a dead end but not dead!
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Morpheus
Newbie
Posts:8
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| 24-03-2008 9:30 AM |
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For me and for some of the reasons expressed above, Skype wasn't the answer. Focussing on SIP compliant products took me first to Project Gizmo. This was going to be part of a support infrastructure and I wanted the greatest flexibility, not tied to a PC, or even a geographic location. This took me then to Zoom with their x5v SIP MODEM. A port on the rear connect one's PSTN service such that all calls are VOIP, If I wanted I could do SIP from the garden with a standard wireless phone. A failsafe mechanism in the modem, switching back to PSTN should the power or ADSL connection fail.
Then to VOIPUSER.ORG where I could get a free inbound number, generating a revenue trickle for them, a not for profit setup and direct routing to my SIP number, whatever that might be. I could and did switch SIP providers by reconfiguring the modem. It also gave redirect on busy & noanswer services with voicemail delivery included.
Then it came to thinking about being able to service my own support desk from anywhere in the world, should I need to travel in pursuit of social objectives. I found a mainstream ticketed helpdesk application called Cerberus which offered a free licence for up to three operatives. I could simply reroute the voicemail and dro it into the helpdesk as a support ticket. Hence, I should be able to provide a worldwide virtual presence.
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RichardL
Newbie
Posts:8
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| 27-03-2008 10:28 AM |
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I'm with RedKnight on this one. Skype works straight out the box and I didn't even need to plug a phone into my laptop. I'm sure Skype will be forced to alter its practices eventually, but that could be quite some time.
Its simply not realistic to expect anyone to set up Trixbox except hobbyists and I wouldn't give much of your chances for getting support for it when you need it. Otherwise we'd all be using it, wouldn't we? |
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Mystic Raven
Newbie
Posts:13
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| 03-04-2008 6:47 AM |
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Likewise, I love Skype.
My other half works in Jo'burg for a weeks or two every month, I speak to him on Skype for free almost every night when he's away.
It's a fantastic free service which could be valuable to charities once it catches on as it helps keep costs down.
It's easy to use and you don't need to be a tecchie to install it. I'm a fan. |
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Morpheus
Newbie
Posts:8
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| 04-04-2008 8:18 AM |
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Mystic Raven, an interesting point about the application to charity. I recall that about two years ago, on the forums promoted by Ebay founders Jeff Skoll and Pierre Omidyar I advocated giving nonprofits or social business like my own, the opportunity to resell revenue generating outbound calling services of VOIP and rebrand them to build a brand loyalty associated with a social cause. I felt it particularly helpful in regions which lacked conventional credit facilities and where the charity might offer a voucher based facility instead. Ebay as you know bought Skype and although those participating in the discussion thought it a triple bottom line, in an industry anticipated to reach many trillions of dollars, that didn't persuade Ebay.
Gizmo, on the other hand now offer such a facility, albeit only for larger scale charities with sufficient volume. So, consider the Oxfam calling card, for example as a gift token being promoted by supported.
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Risso
Newbie
Posts:9
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| 02-06-2008 2:49 PM |
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It's fashionable to grumble about Skype simply because it's popular, but there's a reason it's widely used - as others have said, it works out of the box. It's true that it may not catch on as part of organisation policy, for the above technical reasons, but as far as individual use goes I think it's here to stay until a better solution comes along. I used it yesterday to talk to someone in America on a Macbook Pro, no headphones, just the built-in mic and speakers. It worked reliably for twenty minutes or so, with only a small transmission delay, and no echo.
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure you can run it on a smartphone, over wifi, which means you can make Skype calls anywhere you can get on a network.
Just to clarify, buying a "skype phone" that you plug into your PC doesn't really achieve anything at all - just get a cheap headset if you need one. I have encountered echo problems on my old iBook, so I'd recommend using a pair of headhones with it. |
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crystalreflex
Newbie
Posts:1
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| 19-06-2008 8:26 AM |
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Some of you 'Skypers' may be interested in FlashMeeting. It was developed by the Knowledge Media Institute at The Open University as a way of encouraging student interaction in a European learning project back in 2003 and since then has grown into a global community of more than 30,000 education and business users enabling live and on-line video communication from a simple computer. A further 20,000 people view recordings of Flashmeetings.
For more information follow this link: http://flashmeeting.open.ac.uk/home.html
You can also visit the OU's OpenLearn site at http://openlearn.open.ac.uk/ to see if there are any free courses you are interested in taking, and once enrolled are able to use the Flashmeeting servers.
Enjoy,
Graham Grover  |
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Asterix
Newbie
Posts:19
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| 27-06-2008 9:28 AM |
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| Thanks Graham, that's interesting. I had been really happy with Skype until recently - I had an important Skype conference a couple of days ago but there was a lot of interference and I couldn't really hear what was being said. In the end, we had to dial into a tele-conference. |
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andelscott
Newbie
Posts:1
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| 08-07-2008 10:47 AM |
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I love Skype - but agree that it is not truly a 'commercial grade' option. This is in part beyond control of the Skype developers.
Network managers don't like it (I think it has peer-to-peer traits) and I too have had horrendous calls. To be fair, much depends on the user's quality of service and, in this regard, operation from a commercial site to a commercial site *should* be less susceptible to problems.
Main problems:
* Internet congestion or bandwidth throttling on the local loop
(normally no QoS control on the user's router to mitigate);
* slow or struggling PC (older laptop multi-tasking).
For personal use, I'd say unequivocally "go for it!". I've found the "dial-out" option to be cost-justified: a matter of euro-cents per minute from USA to UK, rather than £s a minute on a mobile. PC to PC is, of course, free.
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